Non-depository financial institutions, or NDFIs, lend money without taking deposits. Many are familiar names, like Visa and PayPal, but some make riskier loans: subprime auto loans, subprime mortgages and speculative real estate. Banks have been lending to them at a fast pace, with far less disclosure than their own loans get. In Episode 012, Nicky P, Luke Tatum and Rob Brayton explain what NDFIs are, why recent bad loans caught their attention, and where to keep your savings if it goes wrong.
“We don’t want people to think right off the bat. Like if a company’s an NDFI, it’s automatically bad.”
Nicky admits this topic is outside his depth, which makes him the right person to ask the basic questions. Rob defines the term, Luke gives it a nickname, no-defies, and the three of them work out why money moving through these lenders looks a lot like the risk that built up before 2008.
What We Covered
What an NDFI is. A non-depository financial institution lends money without taking deposits. Rob is careful to say that doesn't make them bad. Visa and PayPal count. The concern is a subset in riskier lending, such as car loans, subprime mortgages and speculative real estate, funded with capital that doesn't have to be disclosed the way bank lending does.
Bad loans start to show. Rob says recent news of bad loans and write-offs at banks that lent to these companies is why they wanted to cover it. If that's happening at the biggest banks, what else is going on?
No deposit insurance, less visibility. Luke points out that money sitting with these lenders has no FDIC coverage. Banks are taking part in risky lending indirectly through them. After years of low rates, banks went looking for higher returns, and lending to an NDFI that makes subprime loans lets a bank say it isn't making subprime loans itself.
“We are going to win a stupid prize. And it’s gonna be bigger and worse the longer we play.”
Another layer. Nicky connects it to fractional reserve banking, where banks keep only part of their deposits in reserve, and notes that reserve requirements were loosened during COVID. Lending to lenders who lend again takes that one step further. His picture: topping off the liquor bottle with water until it's all water.
Private equity. The piece that worries Luke most is private equity funds, which also count as NDFIs. He describes buyouts financed with as much as 80% debt, followed by layoffs and dividends paid to the owners with more borrowed money. It's financing on top of financing, and when you ask where the money really is, the trail ends at money created out of thin air.
Why low rates feed it. Rob shares a point from the late Nelson Nash: banks make the most money when rates are low, on the margin. If rates are held down, the way to earn more is volume, and lending through NDFIs lets banks grow volume outside the usual limits. For more on leveraged buyouts, Rob recommends Barry James Dyke's books, including Pirates of Manhattan.
“The bottom line is greed has nothing to do with it.”
The numbers. Luke cites a 50% year-over-year jump in bank lending to NDFIs in 2025. At Fifth Third Bank, he found these loans made up about 8% of the loan book, and he says many banks run at 14% to 16% or higher. A sudden shock to that much of a lender's portfolio is the kind of thing that sets off a panic. For the 2008 background, he suggests Tom Woods' Meltdown and The Great Deformation.
It's the system, not greed. Nicky pushes back on talk of greedy cycles. Companies are legally obligated to pursue the best return for shareholders, and regulators have obligations that often run against the average person. Expecting them to protect you is what left people exposed in 2008, when Wall Street was bailed out and Main Street wasn't.
Bail-ins. Luke points to the bail-in provisions that followed Dodd-Frank. In the next crisis, the plan isn't a taxpayer bailout. Failing banks can be recapitalized with creditors' money, and in Luke's view that could reach customer deposits. That's why he keeps only what he needs for day-to-day spending in a bank.
Key Takeaway
If NDFI losses spread, a lot of people will be hurt, and the ones who come out ahead will have dry powder: capital they control, kept somewhere safer than a bank. Luke keeps his with a mutual insurance company, where he can reach it and put it to work when prices fall. Plenty of millionaires were made in 2008 by people who were ready. As Luke says, you get to choose every day whether to take responsibility for your financial life.
Key Moments
[0:00] What Is an NDFI?
[4:00] No FDIC Insurance, Less Visibility
[7:00] From the Gold Standard to Fractional Reserves
[9:00] Private Equity: Financing on Top of Financing
[14:00] Banks Make the Most Money When Rates Are Low
[17:00] A 50% Jump in Bank Lending to NDFIs
[19:00] How Exposed Are the Banks?
[20:00] It's the System, Not Greed
[25:00] Bail-Ins and Your Bank Deposits
“You get to make a choice every day, whether you are going to take responsibility for your financial life or not”
Related Episodes
Episode 008: What Does a Fed Rate Cut Mean for You? Easy Money and Who Benefits First
Episode 013: Is AI a Bubble? OpenAI's $7.8 Billion Loss and the Circular Financing Behind the Boom
Episode 047: What If Rates Never Come Down? The Big Short Lesson Behind "Buy Now, Refinance Later"
Want the full conversation, including Luke's take on private equity? Listen to the full episode and grab the free toolkit at PerfectSpiralCapital.com/podcast.
FAQ
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A company that lends money or provides financial services without taking deposits. The category includes payment companies like Visa and PayPal, auto finance companies, mortgage lenders, and private equity and private credit funds. Many banks lend to NDFIs, which then lend to their own customers.
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No one knows yet. What concerns Luke Tatum and Rob Brayton is the pattern: banks have increased lending to NDFIs quickly, some NDFIs make subprime and other risky loans, and their books are much less visible than a bank’s. That resembles the setup before 2008, when risky mortgage lending spread through the system before anyone saw how big it was.
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A bail-in recapitalizes a failing bank with money from its creditors instead of taxpayer money. Since the Dodd-Frank Act of 2010, US resolution rules have pointed toward bail-ins over bailouts. Depositors are creditors of their bank, though deposits within FDIC insurance limits are covered. Luke Tatum’s response is to keep only day-to-day spending money in the bank.
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Luke Tatum and Rob Brayton keep their savings outside the banking system, in properly designed whole life insurance from mutual insurance companies. Cash value grows on a contractually guaranteed basis, it isn’t tied to the stock market, and you can borrow against it when an opportunity comes. That dry powder is what lets people buy when others are forced to sell.
Show full transcript
Between The Lies: Episode 012 Transcript
Are NDFIs the Next 2008? [0:00]
Nicky P: Today we get way outside my depth, but what I keep hearing in all of this noise is we are right at the precipice of another huge financial crisis. Welcome to the Between The Lies Podcast, your weekly lesson on how to approach an uncertain world with positivity and balance. I'm Nicky P here with my good friends and money brains.
Luke Tatum and Rob Brayton from Perfect Spiral Capital. Stick around until the end of the video for their free toolkit and be sure to like and subscribe if you enjoy the video. Gentlemen, are these NDFIs the canary in the coal mine for something much worse than 2008?
Luke Tatum: Rob, I'm gonna let you give us the quick overview on this one, but I think the NDFI thing is a big deal.
We just need to start with this defining what that is and, you know, it's gonna be a technical episode, but I think we can do it.
What Is an NDFI? [0:00]
Rob Brayton: Yeah, we'll try to keep it high level so it's not overly complex. It's certainly not as complex as some of the stuff that we saw in 2008. Not non-depository financial institution.
That's what NDFI stands for. And these are, companies that are somewhat standalone, that are, they don't require deposits in order to lend money. And that's essentially the simplest way to put it, is that there's a way for private capital or capital from banks, to be. Implemented into the monetary system in a way that allows for potentially higher profit margins.
And that's really the basis of what these NDFIs are for and how they're structured now. I think it's really important to understand that we don't want people to think right off the bat. Like if a company's an NDFI, it's automatically bad. That's certainly not the case. There's some actually very big household names that are.
Technically NDFIs Visa is one of them. PayPal, these are some of the larger types of institutions. What we're talking about is there is a sort of a subset of NDFIs that operate within a more, should we say, risky space. And these would be like car loans, finance companies. They could be, subprime mortgage lenders.
They could be. Lenders that are investing in commercial real estate or even in, residential real estate that maybe is a little bit more risky, so to speak. And the thing is, and why this is a potential challenge is you have a pretty significant amount of capital that's being invested into these companies that doesn't necessarily have to be disclosed in the same way that it does, with a, within the banking institutions Now.
I think we're all well aware on this podcast. Does that really matter? All that much? You know, in terms of governmental oversight? Not really, but it is an interesting space within the financial services realm that isn't really talked about, but is a concern because we've seen in the last, there was some news this last week that.
Bad Loans and Write-Offs [3:00]
Rob Brayton: Some of these NDFIs had actually started to have a lot of bad loans and some of these companies that had been loaning to NDFIs are writing off pretty substantial amounts of capital, at least in terms of their loan loans that they had lent some of these companies, for example, I think one of them was, chase Bank had $150 million write off.
So I mean, or I'm sorry, $150 billion write off. [Editor's note: The reported figure was a $170 million charge-off at JPMorgan Chase, tied to the bankrupt subprime auto lender Tricolor.] So it's not like this is a small amount of money. It's for Chase. It is, but in the, in the grand scheme of things, if it's that happening at that level, what else is going on? And I think that's really what, why we wanted to bring it up and talk about it, because we're seeing some odd ripples within that space that maybe we should be at least be looking at to see if there's, you know, where there's smoke, there's fire, so to speak.
Is really where I'm coming from.
No FDIC Insurance, Less Visibility [4:00]
Luke Tatum: Yeah, I, well, I mean, and there's a lot of things I think that are concerns here, right? Because you have the fact that you have money that's sort of existing with these, I'm gonna call 'em no-defies. 'cause that sounds a lot more fun. So we're gonna call 'em no-defies, or at least I am.
And so these no-defies, they've got a lot of money, a lot of money, like tens or hundreds of billions of dollars in play over there. And. We don't have FDIC insurance now, again, like people on this podcast, longtime fans of this show, okay? Right. What does the FDIC really do? Anyway? It went bankrupt, excuse me, in 2008.
So it only ensures deposits up to a certain threshold anyway. It can run out of money. There's a lot of negatives, you know, that you could point to with the FDIC system anyway, but the money's not in a bank. It's just kind of out there. But banks are lending money to, and participating in, investing in kind of indirectly these sorts of really risky things using the no-defies.
I'm so glad I came up with that. And so it's like, it's bad. That's bad news, you know, because you don't know. You don't know what they're invested in. There's not that oversight. There's, you know. Regulatory oversight is a double-edged sword in a lot of ways, right? But as long as we've got this kind of situation where interest rates have been low, I mean, I know people feel like, oh my God, interest rates were really, really high recently.
Thank goodness the Fed's been cutting rates. Right? But I have to bring this up every time, you know, like when my parents were home shopping, interest rates were like 18% for a mortgage. You know, y'all don't know what high interest rates are, right? And so. You have this really, really low interest rate environment for a very, very long time.
What do banks have to do? They have to look for higher rates of return. Like, I don't know if, it may feels like corporate greed is like in season and out of season, or if it's just all the time, but like corporate greed, right? That's like a thing and people are looking for money. They look for rates of return.
People are trying to make. A buck out there, and they're trying to do it with as little risk as possible. So if you can create this very weird, kind of systematic, you know, smoke and mirrors kind of thing, where you go, well, you know, we're not really buying subprime mortgages. We're just buying, we're just giving money to a company to participate in their returns when they make subprime mortgages like.
I mean, what, you know, I think I see this every episode, but what are we doing here? You know, it's weird.
From the Gold Standard to Fractional Reserves [7:00]
Nicky P: So allow me to play out a timeline here and I want you guys tell me, it just feels like just the next level. Obviously we go off the gold standard. The value of money becomes very subjective. We have what's called a fractional reserve banking system.
So. Banks are only required to have so much money in the bank at any point in time. Where banks make money is they lend money. They give people money in your loans, and then those, there's like a multiplication effect that that has. Now, what ended up happening. During COVID is that regulations to way I understand it, were loosened to the point of where basically the idea of reserves means almost nothing at this point.
Banks can give out as kind of as much as they want to a certain degree, like it's long as the bank functions on paper. You're good. This feels like a, taking that whole concept of like fractional reserve banking to even like another abstraction where like they're loaning out money to these other places that loan out money or whatever they do and their own system like functioning the same way the banks do.
Like it's, the whole thing to me feels. Like, we haven't learned any lessons at any point in time that, like, not that not having something stable in here matters, and we keep d It's like, almost like ke you keep pouring water into the liquor bottle at your parents' house that you've been sipping on until eventually, like it hasn't been liquor in two years.
It's literally just all water. All the liquor is so diluted. And like that's what's going on with money and like the value of money in our world. It's, am I, am I off base on that? Like, because then when you said these and and diff or whatever, they're the other day, Rob, I. This is, we talk about a lot of stuff under, this is the first time I really had to scratch 'em and go, I have no idea what you're talking about with this, because, and the thing is well, you say that the things that these represent are things that I think we all know.
I mean, to me it sounds like. You have your, basically your in-house financing anywhere you go, it would be fall under this umbrella. Now, granted, some other institutions utilize the things that allow that to happen to do other things, but so it's a very common thing that we probably all encounter every day, but don't think about what that actually means in the long term.
Private Equity: Financing on Top of Financing [9:00]
Luke Tatum: Well, there's one particular area, and I know you've got more to say on this too, Rob, but there's one particular thing that like. Gives me pause more than any of the others. 'cause there's a lot of things that count as a no defy. Right. Okay. There's a lot of different types of companies that fall under that umbrella, but one of those things is private equity funds and private equity funds.
I happen to do a ton of research, on this topic for a different podcast that I was on and, that is some very eyebrow raising. You know, suspect questionable. Other big words for bad, you know that there's a lot of, there's a lot of weird stuff that goes on in that space. Okay. And so what are we talking about with that?
That's companies that are like doing deals, 80% on debt. To buy out a company fire. A bunch of people restructure, try to invest in technology and flip it, but they actually are doing all kinds of nonsense. On top of that, they're paying themselves massive dividends using additional loans. Like it's financing on top of financing on top of financing.
And so it's like, where is the actual money? And I feel like the answer that we have to that question is. I don't know. Go ask that guy. You know, and you just kind of like, just point the finger. I think the bank gave us the money. Well, where did the bank get the money? Well, they made it outta thin air, right?
And so.
Nicky P: There's a TikTok I watch that goes over this stuff all the time. Like he has a video where it's like him talking to himself as like the rich guy talking to the Normie guy, and he goes so deep into the weeds about like shell corporations and private equity and how, you know, I, Ian Carroll had enough video on this when he was talking about the whole, what do you call it in regards to.
The GameStop situation and like, and the idea that like basically these creations exist that on the super fake money. Continue siphoning more wealth towards themselves, bankrupting the company, like not paying anything back because, oh, well we wrote the, this is why lawyers can't be in charge.
People, I'm sorry. This is why you can't let them anywhere near government. 'cause this is what happens. I'm sorry.
Regulation as a Cost of Doing Business [12:00]
Luke Tatum: You can't, if, you know, men were angels, you wouldn't dare have a government. Right? Like it's just one of those things. It's crazy to think that. This would happen. Like the, you know, the fear is, oh my gosh, we gotta regulate the financial sector.
I think there's 68 different regulatory agencies. The last I remember count getting a number on that. I could be wrong, but it's a very, very large number of different agencies that regulate the financial world, quote unquote regulate. It's just a shell game. It's just a whole bunch of, it's a cost of doing business.
That's how it, that's all it amounts to
Rob Brayton: The cost of doing business. Exactly.
The Legacy of Jekyll Island [13:00]
Luke Tatum: This would just, this would not be happening if we actually had private people risking private capital to make things happen. The reason that we have this is because, I mean, it's the legacy of Jekyll Island, right? But it's because we have money that can get created at a thin air.
That is not a power that should exist. Nobody should have that. I don't want it to be private. I don't wanna be public. I don't care if the Fed is private or public, that's a subject of debate or whatever. I don't care. It shouldn't be a thing. And the after effects of that, the gradually worsening and worsening and worsening ratios and data and all this stuff on like GDP to debt and et cetera, it's all because we are playing a stupid game.
We are going to win a stupid prize. And it's gonna be bigger and worse the longer we play. So that's it. That's my view on this.
Nicky P: To describe what people, what's actually going on here is, so what's happening people is they've created Monopoly money, but they're using that monopoly money to buy real assets.
Like that property that Bill Gates owns. That's a real asset that he spent very fake money on, but now legally it is his. Isn't always a place where like, I think people get angry at capitalists. Like, oh, you guys are always sticking up for the bad guys. You're always doing this and you're always doing that.
And it's like, well, but I'm not the person that wrote the rules this way. Like, I wouldn't have wrote the rules this way. It's, this is not something I value.
Banks Make the Most Money When Rates Are Low [14:00]
Rob Brayton: Well, I mean, people are, people are always trying to. And, and what we always see is the government's always trying to solve problems that they were the root cause to create in the first place.
And, and that's really the what's going on with our money game. You know, Luke, you brought up before you had mentioned, you know, banks trying to make money on interest rates and so on. You know, one thing to keep in mind that our, posthumous Nelson Nash, our mentor had mentioned was that. Banks make the most money when interest rates are low, and that what he means by that is on the, margin.
So what I see in a situation like this with now, we all these companies know the banks know all these, you know, quote unquote greedy people, so to speak. Maybe see that. Interest rates are gonna be held artificially low. Well, how do you make more money if rates are low? Well, you can do it a couple of different ways.
One is, if I know they're gonna be low, how can I increase the volume? If I can dramatically increase my volume without having to increase my reserves? I.e. A bank lending to create capital at an NDFI. Now these NDFIs go out and they're using leveraged capital in order to make loans. That's exactly what's going on in this market space.
And, and then you brought up the whole leveraged buyout situation, which for anybody who wants to really understand leveraged buyouts, I highly recommend any of Barry James Dyke's books, you know, Pirates of Manhattan, any of them. They're all good. And it really highlighting some of those challenges.
But that's what we see these nds are being used for. In some cases, not all of them, but some of them, but. What I see is it's this big knock on effect of artificially low interest people trying to maximize, or banks trying to maximize on that, those low rates and drive the margin up even higher by expanding their reach.
And then they do it in an area that's very much non, or I should say, less regulated than some of the others and doesn't have reserve capital reserve requirements. They have some. Areas where they have to be mindful of. But like when we say a bank doesn't need reserves in our current state, they still have to have actual, like capital reserves in the bank like that they have, but they don't have to have deposit reserves any longer for the money that they lend.
And that's really what we're saying here. So, and in this case with NDFIs, they don't need any of it. They're giving them loans and then they're going and lending off of that. So. That's really what's going on. And it's a big shell game just like you guys were talking about. So that's kinda like the mechanics on what's happening.
A 50% Jump in Bank Lending to NDFIs [17:00]
Luke Tatum: Let me add some data to that too, because we're talking high concepts and all that stuff, you know. You can easily find information on how big some of these NDFIs are. Things like Visa and that sort of stuff. It's, you know, there's a huge, it's hundreds of billions of dollars, but banks have been investing more and more and more heavily into the NDFI space, and so just in.
This year, in 2025 to date, there's been a 50% year over year surge in NDFI holdings and or loans to them rather. And so, I mean, it's been hot and it's getting hotter, and you have to ask the question why. Why did we have the 2007 2008 collapse? Well, it was a systemic issue. All of the banks were participating in these crazy, risky investments, et cetera, et cetera.
I mean, there's a lot there. You can read Tom Woods Meltdown. You can read, you know, the Great Deformation. There's lots of wonderful books on this. But, you know, that is one of the key things, and that's what people kind of have in their heads. Oh my gosh. They were buying, subprime mortgages. Right.
Well, so. If they're still buying subprime mortgages among other things that are very risky and they're doing that faster and faster, and they're just doing it kind of through an intermediary, right? It didn't really solve the problem. We didn't really learn our lesson, all the things we've already said, and they're scaling that up.
How Exposed Are the Banks? [19:00]
Luke Tatum: Right? Fifth Third Bank I was able to find, Fifth Third Bank has only about 8%. Of their holdings are in these NDFIs, okay. Or their loan portfolio. I dunno why I keep saying holdings, but only about 8%. That's low. A lot of these places are 14, 16, or even higher as a percentage of their loan portfolio.
And so, I don't know about you, but you know, a lot of businesses can't stand to like 20% shock. To their profit center, right? If all this starts to come apart, that's gonna be bad news. It's gonna trigger the, oh my gosh, the financial system is falling apart. Sort of a panic that we have seen in the past.
And when that happens, I mean, I know we have to turn this into a positive, but a lot of people are gonna get hurt real bad. The positive is if you know, if you are watching this episode. And you have, and we say this all the time, if you have powder dry, if you have some capital that you control, if you have money in a safe place, and I'm not talking about a bank, I'm talking about an insurance company that you can deploy, that you can touch, that you can invest.
I mean, a whole heck of a lot of millionaires were made in 2008, right? You can be one of those. There's ways that you can capitalize on a crisis, and it's only if you're flatfooted and ready to go, or excuse me, not flatfooted if you're, if you're caught ready to go.
It's the System, Not Greed [20:00]
Nicky P: I wanna point out before we get too deep, you mentioned earlier we were talking about these cycles of greed and you mentioned just fully, you know, these times when people are just extra greedy.
The bottom line is greed has nothing to do with it. We have a system that is set up. Where you have to turn a profit, you have to go and find the highest return you can make because you have a legal obligation to your shareholders to do that. If you don't do that, you're, you, like you're running all kinds of legal liability.
The other element being everyone's treating regulation and government like the big hero in the room that's looking out for you. And the most empowering thing that, you know, I think we can tell people at this moment is they're not there. Like they're, they have obligations that have nothing to do with you.
The average person, in fact, obligations are often very contrary to you because of the way the system is set up. Relying on them to protect you is. Foolhardy at the best. 'cause that's what happened in 2008, is people were expecting big daddy government to be there to protect them and take care of them When who got bailed out, we've, I don't know how America, they had not had a bigger reckoning of the fact that.
They bailed out Wall Street, not Main Street. And I even the worst, you know, Republican Reaganite is never going to try and pretend that that money was ever gonna trickle down. There's no way for it to, there's no protecting Main Street by protecting Wall Street. That slogan, man, whoever came up with it, just woo.
So you, so you need the takeaway, the empowering thing is you need to know like that this is the world. Greed doesn't wave. You have a system that's set up a certain way is educate yourself on the system, educate yourself on how things operate, and know that it's up to you one way or the other.
You're the only person, like the buck stops with you. You have to take care of yourself.
Why Rob Does This Work [23:00]
Rob Brayton: Yeah, totally. And, and I think that's a big reason why. You know, having lived through 2008 myself and seeing how things were handled, how it was operated, I wanted to be in a situation where I didn't have to worry about what was happening.
And that's a big reason why I'm doing what I'm doing. And that's to serve and help people so that they're insulated and protected in these situations. They don't have to worry about it. Now, maybe they, some people will be because they wanna put their money, you know. Still put it to use, but they still have this great level of security to fall back on.
And that, that's a lot about what we structure and what we do for our, for our clients here. But it's a, it is an interesting concept, Nick, that you bring up that you know, there isn't anybody that's gonna go out and watch for you and be your advocate. All these companies, all these a, b, C agencies have these acronyms as if they're gonna go do this for you.
But they're not, they're not gonna do that. It's like we said before, it's there so that it's to, it's for these companies that they know the cost of doing business, that's what it's, and they're willing to pay that cost at your expense, and then you're the one who has to pay for it, you and me through our tax dollars, et cetera.
So if we can begin to find ways to operate outside that system, that's what we're doing and that's what we're helping to secure for. For our clients and, and how we work with people and help 'em so that they don't have to deal with that anymore.
Nicky P: What's really funny to me is that there's like, there's only two advantageous positions to be in.
One is having a lot of capital to deal with things as they come. In 2008 I was in the other camp, I was homeless and didn't have anything to lose. There's nothing to be wiped out for me. That's never a good situation. Even in that like that situation, folks. So learn what you can be prepared, like ha, find the capital.
Talk to guys like Luke and Rob here and help you be in the position that we're all in now, where we have options. Like I'm in some ways glad that I didn't have anything to lose, but you know, like if I'd known all this then I could have been in even a better position then than better position now, you know?
Bail-Ins and Your Bank Deposits [25:00]
Luke Tatum: Sure. But I mean, it's the whole second best time to plant a tree thing. I mean, you know, it's the literal best example to use on this. But. You know, you get to make a choice, right? Every day, every time we release a podcast, every time we put this message out there, you know, you, anybody watching, anybody who hears this for the first time, potentially, you get to make a choice every day, whether you are going to take responsibility for your financial life or not, right?
You can just go, ah, the FDIC's got my back, right? But, and I'm not gonna get into the weeds on this, but look up the Dodd-Frank Act. Right. Bail-ins. What is on the books legally now is bail-ins. If we have a financial crisis and all your money's in the bank and you're just waiting for the FDIC to hand you a check, guess what?
It's not gonna happen. They're not gonna use a taxpayer bail out the next time this occurs. That has been on the books for a long time. Now what is gonna happen is they're gonna use customer deposits, AKA, your money to recapitalize the bank. They're gonna take your money. That that's what the law is. And so if that's a better scenario for you, for some crazy reason, go for it.
But I mean, that's not what I'm gonna do. I don't want my money anywhere near a bank more than I need to do my day-to-day operations. Right. So, yeah, it's worth doing some research. So we've got. An incredible toolkit for you if you're still here with us. You obviously have been taking this very, very seriously.
You care about the future of your money, right? So we've got a toolkit that's gonna help you demystify the future of your money. It's got a copy of my Amazon bestselling book. It's got two free video courses to help you understand our savings strategies that we use, and you can get all that for free.
So perfectspiralcapital.com/podcast. Sign up there, get a free copy of the toolkit today. Thanks so much for watching. We'll see.
